Discussion of possible changes Discussed in Napier

[Neil Pye]

My take, for what it's worth:

1) 'm not convinced that the FD would respond to the larger spi in the same way that the 505 did. The greater weight and length may well mean that it won't get up and dance in quite the way the 505 does. Might it not simply become an overpowered beast that is almost impossible to reach, and just rather more of a handful on the runs? If we want windward/leeward racing, there are plenty of classes that already provide that. I personally don't want the character of the class to change, all boats are a compromise and I happen to like the compromise that the FD represents. Has anyone actually tried it yet?

2) The philosophy of the class rules was - and is? - that the factors that influence speed (ie hull shape and weight, foils and sailplan) should be one-design. Are we suggesting that this philosophy should be ditched, or are we suggesting that we have someone design a new rudder? If the former, I would vote NO as loud and long as possible. If the latter, I would have less problem with it. In the end though, what does it really matter? Will a new rudder attract new sailors to the class? I very much doubt it.
As far as the centreboard goes, there's no way. Introducing a modification that makes every boat in the fleet obsolete would be suicide.

3) What possible reason could there be for making the big Tacktick legal? Even with the displays taped over, I don't think it should be allowed on the boat. The rule is pretty clear on this, no?

I love the boat the way it is, a new rudder or a bigger kite would not make me more likely to want to go sailing.

Neil

[Durk]

John Best puts forward some of the thoughts discussed in Napier,

1) The bigger kite: this item was proposed by Kilian and as we can see on the intro picture of the Dutch FD site one can go really spectacular with the old one. Therefore no need to change.

My objections are: 1) crewing will be more difficult. If we want to maintain a critical mass in the class we should not invest in changes that make crewing even more difficult. A proposal of Hideo was waved but according to my experience with a similar attempt in one of the Dutch one design classes to change a kite into a gennaker like sail appeared to be much easier for the crew. The advantage will be a more tactic and intriguing down wind track. Now the reaching is a kind of goose chase one after another. Probably Hideo will bring his gennaker to Medemblik. The arrangements to make a gennaker on the FD are quite simple.

2) The discussion about the rudder. Since I'M not sailing already many years in the FD the only funny experience with the FD rudder is the fact that sculling is not very effective with zero rake. Of course we are not allowed to scul but many FD helmsman prefer more rake just to be able to scul if that is considered wanted during starting and so on. Stalling on a firm reach was never experienced as a problem sofar.
The other thing that struck me when I started to sail FD is the pointing capability of the FD. The FD points much less than comparable ships. If the rudder and the centrebord design are responsible for this lack of pointing I do not know. My perception is that the area of the centreboard is just too big as soon as the wind is 2-3 Beaufort. I like the suggestion to leave the circumference free and to do within that circumference what one likes to do. I recently produced a tandem cb within the circumference of the existing CB since no minimal thickness is prescribed, it is already within the class rules I think. The limited thickness of the board is a problem but many FD have CB slots not on the max width of 40 mm. Therefore it is too structural to change that.

3) The tactics. The small one OK. The big one to expensive.
I' m curious to know the responses on the ideas about the gennaker since just a few could react in Napier where the enthousiasm was not that big. Best regards Durk Ned 340/341

[matbard]

3) Why don't allow other devices like te excellent Velocitek series?

- Matteo

[John.L.Best]

Dear Contributers,

This is John Best, I am delighted with the contributions so far, and you can all rest assured that;

A) No changes will or would be made to the beautiful boat without the approval of a majority of the FD sailors worldwide.

B) You can probably take it as a given that the Centre Board is in the too difficult, too expensive to alter box.
Note:
There have been some furtive tinkerings with a board that retains the same outside profile, and therefore would be seen as measuring, but has an open slot running down the middle and two aerofoils , one at the leading edge and one at the trailing edge. Unlikely to make it onto the race track, too expensive and probably way too quirky for average users. such things tend to work really well in flat undisturbed water, but in waves and gusty conditions, would probably prove to be worse than what we have. It was looked at when I was at University 37 years ago. Even then a health and safety issue was raised, I can't believe I was that sensible, but there was concern that somebody righting a capsized FD might end up with a foot stuck in the slot in the board.

C) The twigs or whatever on the carbon mast would need to be right if the bigger spinnaker were to be pursued, and the spinnaker hoist raised. But the Halyard hoist would almost certainly not be increased, merely the pole height lowered. That is pretty much the view of all the mast and sailplan cognoscenti that I have spoken to.
Note:
Much as I would, if I still regularly sailed FD's want to tinker withthe bigger kite, I tend towards Paul Scoffin's comments. While it might turn on some, but not all of the normal circuit participants, it would almost certainly change the way the the boat is raced, and MIGHT WELL ALIENATE LARGE TRACTS OF THE FD SAILING POPULATION!!. The main purpose of this discussion is to see which group is biggest. Hence my requesting Killian Koenig to return to Germany and obtain a majority in support of a bigger spinnaker, prior to any further serious discussion on the subject. The reason for this measure is simply this, when the "BIGGER" spinnaker was first mooted, about 90% of the screaming and trumpetting came from the German Fleet. They were happy with it as it was. Eventually they agreed to try, and hence the "Bigger" spinnaker.

I am delighted that it is being discussed, because it gets talked about in Dark Corners of boat parks worldwide and I firmly believe that in a class as good as the FD we should be openly discussing the road ahead.! My personal view is that the class standing completely still as it is presently is not a long term option.!

D) The rudder is probably the simplest to alter, significant increases in responsiveness could be obtained relatively simply. Though the existing profile would be the first casualty.
Note:
The rudder used to look nice when compared with the rectangular plywood rudder blades that were about on GP 14's and Enterprises et al when I was in my teens. But time and Hydrodynamics have marched on. I even ran an FD rudder up and down a towing tank when I was at University, it's dynamics were fairly horrible then, the profile, especially the the hanging heel of the blade generated some serious votices, but greater depth and a narrower profile, much less whetted surface and a carefully designed section would work wonders.
I found it interesting tha nobody spoke about it at the Forum in Napier.

Thanks for contributing, put the word around, get your chums to offer an opinion,

Regards, John Best

[sparky]

I dont think the larger spinnaker would be a good idea.Many masts will be broken........The actual spinnaker is better. To use a larger spinnaker,we also have to change the spinnaler pole,using a longer one and the actual prebend system would be inadeguated causing a further change to the rig (further costs) and the FD would seem more and more to a skiff losing his essence.I dont think it's the best moment to make unuseful (expensives)changes for a class wich already goes very well.To change rudder blade is very expensive and it would not increase the performances significatly.It's not necessary to make a revolution in our class only to follow the actual skiff trend,velocity is not all.........remember the medal race of 49ers at recent olympics.
I think it's better to discuss about carbon or kevlar sails (woven ply).The price is not more expensive than a good dacron and the performances will be much better especially in relation to the use of carbon rig. I spoke with my sailmaker and he told me that the price of woven ply sails is not more than dacron sails,if you use a good dacron.

Spartaco Francesconi ITA 109, conservative sailor

[Durk]

John makes a remark about the costs of a tandem centreboard. I made a perfect one with normal ceder strokes and 200 gram/m2 unidirectional carbon and epoxy for 100 euros. I don't see why it should be more expensive than the current one we use.
The safety aspect: it is as strong nowadays with carbon as the normal centreboard. I'm not afraid it will break. Another aspect: a foot will get trapped that is a theoretical possiblity but can be solved with a kind of (carbon) mesh in the "free space". Any way.
As far as the rudder concerns. If a deeper and more prophylic rudder is suggested it should be noted that a system that allows lowering of the rudderblade standing in the boat is needed, otherwise one has to walk until the neck into the water to clear the bottom to allow the rudder hung on the transom. Such constructions increase costs enormously .
It could be interesting to arrange some trials before the Worlds to test some of the suggested proposals.
1) bigger kites
2) tandem centreboards
3) gennakers
4) "heel less" rudderblades

[sparky]

I think U are too optimist........if u read the price of centreboard from price list of Mader,Bogumil or Teb,U will see that the price it's no under 1000 euros.........if u can build a carbon centreboard at 100 euros,u can give me your adress to have one for me.....rather two

[O.J.]

Other classes, the Etchells, the Finn and I think the 5o5 have adopted the small Tack Tick as legal, but the larger Tack Tick is not.

Regarding TackTick.
If there is a worldwide demand for electronic compasses similar in function to small TackTick but with larger display like on the big one, someone (Class officials perhaps) should contact TackTick and ask them to produce one. It's just a matter of larger LCD display. These items cost close to nothing when bought in quantities from manufacturers these days. I am an EE by trade, so I know what I'm talking about.

Regards,
O.J.Rancans

[Hideo]

I think Durk's idea of having a trial of the changes before the worlds is excellent.
How about allowing all those changes in the pre-world regatta in Medemblik. Then, I will try to use my gennaker if I manage to go there.
Hideo - NZL 110

[sparky]

Why,you and Durk don't buy a 49er? I think it's better for you,with gennaker,fantastics foils,double trapeze,always standing..............if u want sail in FD,i think it's better leave it how it is,it's fantastic, FD don't need a skiff revolution.........if one loves FD,loves it like is it,not for how it could be.
For electronics compasses (gps etc.): The fd is not for those who seeking a way to buy with the money that they can not have with his talent